Like many long-term Guardians, I'm incredibly frustrated and demoralized by the fundamental changes introduced with Edge of Fate. What was once a deeply engaging hobby built on player agency and rewarding progression has been replaced by systems that feel actively detrimental to core gameplay loops. This isn't just a "nerf" to our characters; it's a nerf to fun and the very reasons many of us have invested thousands of hours and dollars into Destiny 2.
Here are my primary concerns, and why I believe these changes are overwhelmingly detrimental:
Forced Specialization & The Death of Balanced Builds:
The Issue: My previous build allowed for a nuanced, balanced stat spread (e.g., 107 Health, 105 Grenade, 103 Super, with solid Melee, Weapons, and Class stats). The new Armor 3.0 archetype system forces hyper-specialization, making it virtually impossible to achieve anything close to a balanced stat distribution. Every armor piece now spikes two stats, leaving others cripplingly low. My preference for versatility is completely undermined.
Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. It eliminates a core aspect of buildcrafting for many, reducing creative character customization to a rigid "archetype-matching" exercise. It forces players into less adaptable playstyles and makes Guardians feel objectively weaker and less effective overall, losing the satisfying sense of control and adaptability that prior builds offered.
Matchmaking Removal & The End of Casual Social Play:
The Issue: The near-complete removal of matchmaking from most activities, leaving only one or two options, effectively isolates players. While Fireteam Finder exists, it's not a replacement for the casual, low-friction social interaction of immediate matchmaking.
Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. Destiny 2 has always thrived as a shared-world experience. Stripping matchmaking breaks down casual social engagement, introduces significant friction for playing with others (time commitment, social anxiety, LFG requirements), and forces many players to play alone, diminishing the game's community aspect and sense of belonging. It makes the game feel far less accessible for quick, drop-in social sessions.
Unrewarding Grind & Lack of Meaningful Progression:
The Issue: I'm effectively forced to abandon my meticulously crafted old gear because new content demands the new, often lower-specced equipment. The path to obtaining "Tier 5" buildcrafting-worthy gear is a projected 90+ hour grind that yields functionally inferior items for a significant portion of that time. Even then, the gear will follow the restrictive archetype system.
Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. It invalidates past effort, creates a "hamster wheel" where initial effort feels unrewarded, and removes any immediate satisfaction from playing. If the process of acquiring gear is a soul-crushing chore, players lose their motivation to engage with the game at all.
No Over-leveling & Perpetual "Annoying Difficulty":
The Issue: The design choice to keep enemies always 20 or 50 levels above players (or simply make content immune to over-leveling) means the traditional RPG power fantasy of working hard to eventually "smash" content is gone. End-game activities will always feel "annoyingly difficult."
Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. It removes the critical aspirational goal and sense of progression that fuels the grind in many games. If effort doesn't translate into a tangible feeling of increased power and mastery over content, the entire gameplay loop loses its purpose. It robs players of the satisfaction that comes from overcoming challenges through earned strength.
Seasonal Resets & Zero Long-Term Investment:
The Issue: Any progress made in the new, unrewarding grind is explicitly temporary, with a power reset (down to level 200) planned every 6 months.
Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. It signals that player investment has a built-in expiry date, undermining any motivation for long-term engagement or character building. Why commit hundreds of hours to a build that will be effectively reset? It fosters a sense of apathy and disrespect for player time.
Conclusion:
Taken individually, some of these changes might be debatable, but collectively, they paint a picture of a game that has fundamentally shifted away from what made it a compelling hobby for many of us. When past investment is invalidated, buildcrafting freedom is curtailed, social play is restricted, the grind is unrewarding, and the ultimate power fantasy is removed, there's little left to play for. My hobby, as I knew and loved it, feels effectively gone, replaced by systems that prioritize artificial engagement over genuine player satisfaction and fun.
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Everyone should Bump this to the top and keep it there. Though the Ninjas will probably attempt to bury it soon.
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How to I like this post harder? I agree on every topic.
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Edited by Mark, Scholar of Stars: 7/25/2025 10:49:56 PM[quote]Forced Specialization & The Death of Balanced Builds: The Issue: My previous build allowed for a nuanced, balanced stat spread (e.g., 107 Health, 105 Grenade, 103 Super, with solid Melee, Weapons, and Class stats). The new Armor 3.0 archetype system forces hyper-specialization, making it virtually impossible to achieve anything close to a balanced stat distribution. Every armor piece now spikes two stats, leaving others cripplingly low. My preference for versatility is completely undermined. Impact on Gameplay: This is detrimental. It eliminates a core aspect of buildcrafting for many, reducing creative character customization to a rigid "archetype-matching" exercise. It forces players into less adaptable playstyles and makes Guardians feel objectively weaker and less effective overall, losing the satisfying sense of control and adaptability that prior builds offered.[/quote] [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/1m5w4d3/first_ever_5x100_build/#lightbox]First ever 5x100 build[/url] I found this on Reddit today. If that's what you're looking for. For a long time, I have experienced Bungie as conflicting. But also could get along with it. More or less. But not this time. I did my part and bought "Year of Prophecy." But that will be the last DLC if they don't work this out. There's another subreddit with 3.3 million users. And Bungie's also there, responding. You should see this sub. Edit: Here's the link: [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/]r/DestinyTheGame[/url]
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I kind of agree… I’m usually right back in after the campaign and I’m still playing and leveling slowly but some of the magic is not there at the moment. I’m totally on board with the new armor and stat system…. But not so much on the leveling “seasonally”. Builds are much more deterministic and it gives armor a long needed boost outside of transmog fuel. But if I’m never going to FEEL more powerful because they constant level cap me… that kills the power fantasy which is why most PvE players consistently engage. I’ll just throw this out there too… there is no narrative drive to season of reclamation that I can find. I’m not the mindless grind Diablo type of player.
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So casuals mean nothing to video games anymore then
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Excellent feedback
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The mythic difficulty isn't "hard" in the sense that it's difficult to do. It's just that everything is a bullet sponge, and pretty much one shots u. So the "difficulty" is having the mental fortitude to say "yes ill spend 45 min to kill this one boss for mediocre loot."
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Well written, this no longer feels like the same game anymore. It seems a minority still enjoy it or maybe they prefer change in general. However, I find myself struggling to log on after finishing the campaign and running some Portal activities. whereas only a few weeks ago I was on daily. Perhaps I am finally burned out after 8,000+ hours and I should move on, or maybe I can find a way to make it work after a break from the game for a little while.
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Basically everything that I liked about the game from the past 4 years or so that had me playing more and having the most fun ever is either changed or gone. So I am as well.
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Edited by Motorhead England: 7/26/2025 12:03:33 PMThis is all caused by Bungie trying to be clever, by attempting to introduce a "new style" game into an existing one, and by spending as little amount of money as possible, and we're suffering for it. No subtle changes here, overhaul loot stats and play style, so the grind will be longer and put on cruise control, oh and, we'll fiddle the numbers so players think they're getting better stuff by adding tiers, and to make sure, we'll put all the best stuff on Kepler so only paying players will get the exotic stuff. And to make [i][b]absolutely [/b][/i]sure, we'll reset it just when players just about reach the level to get the high tier stuff. Meanwhile, back at HQ, some poor staff member has to sort through a record number of bugs and technical issues and prioritise the ones that give players a bit of an advantage so they can be fixed first. After all the work that Bungie have put in to make sure the grind is as slow as possible, the last thing they want is for players to get a leg up and power up too quickly. Everything is broken. Armour stats are wrong. Weapon damage is wrong.(Even the damage stats on the firing range don't add up) A spinning ball that does nothing apart from make people feel sick. Players on consoles having their games crash. A raid that was so tough, 70% of the clears had to revert to cheating. So it's not clever to [b]TRY [/b]to be clever. They've had a firm foundation for a great game for 10 years. All it needed was an annual make over with a couple of new strikes, new crucible maps, a dungeon, a raid, and a new set of loot to chase. Many players have been asking for a Destiny 3, and instead, they've tried to squeeze a budget version into D2 and it just hasn't worked.
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I bought, then asked for a refund. This entire expansion seems aimed at one thing, player engagement hours key permance indicator (KPI). Why do I think this? I've played for years and this expansion is a step too far in engagement hours KPI. It requires you to grind for 100s hours to be able to access tier 5 gear, then they reset you back down every 6 months, so you have to grind again to gain access? You have to use latest gear every season for extra damage and resistance? I have a family, I have a life outside D2. Don't farm me for time every 6 months for me to be able to START the gear grind I want with the tier 5s... then not let me use them next season... it's a joke. Greed gone too far. The same behaviour is present in exotic catalysts, that was too much for me already last season, light grind is an insane choice from every angle... except... if your main aim is to farm players for their time. So if the problem is the game exploits players, why is it like this? If I asked 5 whys to get to root cause I'd need to ask Bungie, but hypothetically it could be the below... Players exploited purely for their time at expense of enjoyment... why.?.. bad game design forces players to spend 100s of hours with no reward... why?.... engagement metric / key performance indicator (KPI) needs to be green? (players are the livestock/resource)... why.?... Bungie pay incentives are based on this KPI/? why?... that's what shareholders care about and no customer/player focused KPIs? Root cause = missing customer focussed metrics / KPIs. e.g. feedback ratings, enjoyment feedback, surveys... KPI priority order should change to CUSTOMERS (PLAYERS) --> EMPLOYEES --> SHAREHOLDERS in terms of KPIs. Don't start and stop with shareholders. Root cause = wrong KPIs Action to fix = Add customer KPI as top priority and link to Bungie employee incentives? Just ideas and theory. Hopefully our time is more respected in the future as players. I want to grind for gear, I don't want to grind 100s hours to be ALLOWED to grind the gear I want (tier 5), with my progress reset every 6 months and forced to use loadouts I don't want to use.
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As a 0,1% player I can tell you that i'm pretty happy about EoF being bad, as it is. It makes it much easier for me to play less and eventually quit.
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Honestly, with the matchmaking thing, I actually love it as it is now, but I wish there was an option, outside of quick play that was basically "have matchmaking on with these set modifiers". The second you deviate from the set modifiers, it turns it off again. For the individual activities. The other thing that caught my eye about your post is about stats. I admit, it's been a bit of a headache trying to grapple with builds, but at the same time, the limitations have forced me to get creative. I'll give an example... On my void Hunter build, it used to be about getting invis up asap to survive and push otherwise unassailable positions thanks to damage resist from omnioculus. With the new stats, I have decided to hyper specialise in melee on that build, with a secondary investment into class at a sacrifice to health, and instead compensate by building into Bushido's two set perk of healing on kills with just drawn weapons or after reload (a perk that has near infinite uptime against trash mobs on bows and special grenade launchers as they reload after every shot), and then I put on Echo of starvation, as this build generates a lot of orbs for Devour fun. For context, I have never used Echo of Starvation outside of Voidlock builds before now and I gotta say, it's working out nice. And my Prismatic Helicopter build is looking better than ever. If I can just get a Bushido helmet with the right stat distribution, it'll be perfect.
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I have one bit of advice. I have made plenty of balanced stat builds with the new armor. I have one with 85 in all 6 stats. Just collect a bunch of tier 2 and above armor. And use DIM or D2 armor picker and select the values you want. It will do the math for you. Boils down to just getting a 1 of each of the different armor archetypes and a few mods. Not too difficult.
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Short notice in advance: this post is not detrimental Seasonal Resets & Zero Long-Term Investment: agreed No Over-leveling & Perpetual "Annoying Difficulty": agreed Unrewarding Grind & Lack of Meaningful Progression: right idea but L take with a lot of false claims. a 3 feat raid gives dogwater gear while playing portal gives gear over your level with better stats. stats on tier 3 outclass my 93 artifice armor rolls and they are far better than old armor as they come with better stats and set bonuses + the ability to really go for 200 stat builds Matchmaking Removal & The End of Casual Social Play: you still have old playlist in the world navigation tab and portal level grind feels super casual for leveling. also you now have solo stuff if youre not feeling like it. Forced Specialization & The Death of Balanced Builds: actually???? youre playing a balanced build aka nothing, probably for running around in playlists or something. cant even call that a build to be fair. the stat system is not perfect by far but at leas it puts in some elements of actual RPGs where you can spec into attributes. armor 2.0 was so meaningless. only thing you needed was resilience 100 and the rest didnt matter at all. and btw, with 70 in a stat being the old 100, you could easily go for 6x70 build. you havent done any real investment into buildcrafting and crying that your build that is less flavorful than water is useless now? like wtf?
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It’s blatantly obvious that nobody at Bungie actually plays their own game (or didn’t playtest this update anyway) Only a sociopath would think the game changed for the better.
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The story was good and I’m interested in seeing where it goes. But as you said, this update removes many of the aspects that made the game Destiny. At this point, if things don’t get fixed, I might go back to D1 or not play Destiny at all.
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Destiny certainly feels lonelier as a game now. I never did end game content, doesn't interest me (I enjoyed explorer mode on dungeons), but strikes and nightfalls were always a great, low-key social element. Everything just feels very isolated now.
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No worries guardian! Would it make you feel better knowing weapon/armour re-rolls will be available for SILVER soon? New 30 dollar Eververse sets have been datamined as well..... Yeah this is NOT the Bungie of old lol
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Edited by mfmdblackhawk: 7/26/2025 4:50:49 AMThank you for the post. I am a long time player and I completely agree with you. Edge of Fate was a horrible product. Bungie should be ashamed. They pushed away the core players and the game has unfortunately lost its fun.
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The game needs a new name . this isn't destiny . lm thinking "Grindfest 2"
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All of this, but I'm especially feeling this particular point right now: Forced Specialization & The Death of Balanced Builds. Bungie talks a lot about "trade offs" in this new expansion, but is that really something the players wanted? It doesn't feel great to use my Super once per run because I've invested in Weapons, it doesn't feel great to have a super long cooldown on my Class ability because I've invested in Melee; I guess I could only level my stats up to 100 and make a more balanced build, but that doesn't seem to be what the system or this expansion was designed around. Using abilities is fun; I love Destiny 2's hero moments, they're one of the things that drew me into the game, but now it feels like we're being asked to leave half or more of our kit in the closet. I like the idea of focused builds, but the trade off is pretty immense. Do I leave power on the table, or do I put up with excruciatingly long cooldowns for my off-spec abilities? Having one 200 point stat and everything else sitting at 30-60, it doesn't feel great. Maybe players who get Tier 5 gear will have more balanced loadouts, but I'm not sure I'll even get that far.
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I’ve put in almost 6 k hours on this and that’s not counting the five k on the os4 version he’ll let alone playing destiny 1 from the alpha beta and thousands of hours there. I’m a veteran player big time. They -blam!- ruined the game with this -blam!- update and the dlc is -blam!- too
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You said it right. Game is dead. I have not even touched this mess. I am done after 10 years.
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True!