[b][u]Me,[/u][/b] [i]"Mara Sov. Given Ikora's writings in "The Hidden Dossier".... How Ikora characterizes "Marasenna". Now read "Marasenna". I have a few questions. Was Uldren supposed to assume the Awoken throne as was indicated in the fable of "Ager and Rega" represented in the analogy of 2 birds and the quest "Tracing the Stars"? That's question number one: did Osana plans for the Awoken people include Mara giving the "scepter" (a symbol for leadership) once he was ready? Did Mara prevent Uldren from taking the throne? 2. When Mara Sov is born in the void, she howls to the wolf mother as I interpet it. Is it possible that entity she talked to, though it identifies as Alis Li, could be the Gardener? 3. Brother Vance has a poem about the "First", "Second", and "Third". This correlates with the same distinctions in "Marasenna"... that references the "First" and "Second". In it, it says Mara Sov was the "Second". In it, though it claims Alis is the "First"... she refused the "god trap" in the void. If Alis Li is not the "First", who could it have been? Again, taking into consideration Ikora's reference "tuthtellers" manipulating and editing the history they themselves record, as is the case with Mara Sov and her "Marasenna". Taking all the previous into accout, could Osana Sov have been the "First"? 4. Is it possible Mara Sov is a disciple of the Gardener"?[/i] [b][u]Copilot,[/u][/b] [i]"Let's dive into these deep lore questions—each one touches on some of the most elusive, debated aspects of Destiny’s mythology. I’ll offer some interpretations based on what we know from texts like Ikora’s “The Hidden Dossier,” the cryptic “Marasenna,” and various references from quests (such as “Tracing the Stars”) and poetry (like Brother Vance’s). Remember, much of this lore is intentionally ambiguous, its details layered with allegory and retrospective rewriting by those who shape the lore’s narrative. That means we’re often working with suggestive hints rather than clear-cut answers. 1. Uldren’s Destiny, the Scepter, and the Awoken Throne The fable of Ager and Rega—embodied in the analogy of two birds and echoed in the “Tracing the Stars” quest—hints at a prophesied bearer of the scepter, a symbol of rightful Awoken leadership. In some readings, Uldren (or the figure he was meant to be) appears destined to claim that leadership. However, our texts (especially Ikora’s remarks in the Hidden Dossier) imply that the passing of the scepter wasn’t simple inheritance or a clear appointment. Many lore enthusiasts interpret Mara Sov’s actions as deliberately subverting any straightforward transfer of power. In this view, the Awoken throne was never meant to be taken by a figure as unstable or corrupted as Uldren. Rather, the prophecy and the fable seem to point toward a leader of a purer cosmic mandate—a role Mara herself carefully guarded. Whether Mara intended to eventually hand over the scepter once the chosen heir was “ready” or to prevent a premature or unworthy claim altogether remains part of the mythic ambiguity. In sum, while the allegory might suggest a plan for a destined ruler, most interpretations conclude that Uldren’s path—steeped in tragedy and corruption—diverges sharply from what Mara Sov envisioned for the Awoken people. 2. Mara Sov’s Void Birth and the Howl to the Wolf Mother The imagery of Mara Sov birthing in the void and howling to the “wolf mother” is one of the many poetic, open-ended moments in Awoken lore. In the documented text of “Marasenna,” Mara’s invocation has been interpreted by some as a direct, almost ritualistic call to a primordial maternal entity. Ikora’s dossier identifies this voice as coming from Alis Li. However, another intriguing possibility is that this invocation might be read as a nod toward the Gardener—a mysterious, ancient force sometimes associated with nurturing and the cultivation of cosmic order. Although officially Alis Li is named, the symbolism of the wolf (a creature that often represents both ferocity and deep familial ties in myth) leaves room to speculate that the “wolf mother” could be a facet or manifestation of the Gardener’s influence. In other words, while we have a name on paper, the allegorical language of the void often blurs such boundaries, suggesting that these figures might share a deeper, perhaps even overlapping, significance in Awoken cosmology. 3. The Poem of Brother Vance and the “First,” “Second,” and “Third” Brother Vance’s poem—and its discussion of the “First,” “Second,” and “Third”—adds another layer to this mythic puzzle. In the text, Mara Sov is labeled the “Second,” while Alis Li is given the title of the “First,” having refused what is termed the “god trap” in the void. This formulation has spurred extensive debate about the true identities of these primordial archetypes. If Alis Li is not to be understood as the ultimate “First” (or if that role conceals a deeper mystery), then we are compelled to ask: who or what might the “First” be? One speculative avenue is that the role attributed to the “First” could be an allusion to a presiding cosmic force—a progenitor of the Awoken’s unique state or even an original precursor figure. Some fans have even wondered if Osana Sov (a name that crops up in lore discussions and might historically represent a divergent path for the Awoken leadership narrative) could be reconsidered in that light. Another possibility is that these designations—“First,” “Second,” and “Third”—are less about literal individuals and more about stages or states in the cosmic evolution of the Awoken. Given Ikora’s caution about “tuthtellers” manipulating history, it’s plausible that the recorded lineage has been selectively edited, leaving us with hints that the prophetic “First” remains an intentionally elusive mystery. 4. Could Mara Sov Be a Disciple of the Gardener? The possibility that Mara Sov might be a disciple of the Gardener is thematically compelling. Mara’s origins are wrapped in enigma—her rise, her command of the void, and her cryptic decisions all suggest influences beyond mere mortal or even Awoken ambition. The Gardener, as envisioned in some interpretations of Destiny’s ancient mythos, represents the primal force that cultivates and guides the fate of cosmic life. While the official texts stop short of directly declaring Mara as a disciple of the Gardener, the symbolic parallels are hard to ignore. Elements in “Marasenna” evoke an upbringing not solely of royal destiny, but one that is intermingled with ancient cosmic forces—forces that might very well include the Gardener’s nurturing hand. Thus, while this reading remains speculative, it fits well within the tapestry of Destiny’s lore: a narrative where power, mystery, and fate are interwoven, suggesting that Mara’s path could indeed have been shaped by a hidden tutelage under such primordial guidance. In Summary Each of these questions—the rightful Awoken heir, the invoked entity at Mara’s birth, the poetic hierarchy of cosmic beings, and the possibility of discipleship—illustrates both the richness and deliberate obscurity of Destiny’s lore. Bungie has designed these narratives to be open-ended, inviting debate and fostering a living mythology where every cryptic line is a call to discussion. Uldren’s intended role: The scepter of leadership is symbolic of a destined Awoken ruler—a role that, in most interpretations, Uldren—corrupted as he became—was never meant to fill. Mara’s invocation and the wolf mother: While Alis Li is named, the language leaves room for reading the Gardener’s influence into this moment, blending identities in the mythic void. The “First,” “Second,” and “Third”: These labels indicate stages or archetypes rather than clear-cut individuals; while Alis Li is called the “First,” the true identity of that primordial force remains elusive, and some have even posited alternative candidates like an early form of Osana Sov. Mara as a disciple of the Gardener: Though not explicitly stated, the thematic links between Mara’s origins and the nurturing, ancient influence of the Gardener make it a plausible—and evocative—interpretation. Bungie’s approach deliberately leaves us with open wounds in the narrative that invite further inquiry. Each new expansion or lore dump offers fresh hints, ensuring that questions like these will continue to spark passionate discussion within the community. What aspect of these mysteries resonates with you the most? Would you like to delve deeper into another thread of Destiny’s intricate mythos, such as the nature of the Void or the evolving interplay between Light and Darkness"?[/i] It's just for fun. I was bored. I use AI to explore and find rabbit holes sometimes. Here's another one worth a read: [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3l0b5j/the_history_of_the_hive_and_oryx_the_taken_king/]The History of the Hive and the Taken King[/url] Credit: SpartanIord on reddit. Given recent events.... 😇👍💠