{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
4/21/2025 7:14:25 PM
29
Feedback to the PVP strike team
Before all the hunters come for me with pitchforks—yes, I’m a Warlock main. And yes, I’m frustrated.
I’m tired of being the only non-Hunter in Trials, Comp, and now even Quickplay. This isn’t aimed at players who genuinely play to win and use what’s effective. This is directed more at Bungie and the PvP Strike Team.
I’ve got some feedback to share. This isn’t a hate post, and I’m not here asking for nerfs—just asking some real questions that I hope are taken seriously:
Why are Hunters consistently the majority in Trials—often making up around 50% of the player base?
Why are there more Void Hunters alone than all Warlocks or Titans in Trials? And it's even more skewed in Comp.
We just came out of a Prismatic Hunter-heavy meta, and now we’ve landed straight into an invis-smoke-heavy Void Hunter meta. Why?
Why is high-end PvP (Trials and Comp) always dominated by Hunters?
What is it about the Hunter subclasses that makes them consistently rise to the top?
How can a subclass with only -blam!-% pick rate end up representing over 30% of PvP usage?
Once the PvP Strike Team can take a real look at those questions and identify what’s driving these trends, the next step becomes even more important:
Dig into the core issues:
Why does each new subclass we create still lead to another Hunter-dominated meta? (Looking at you, Prismatic.)
How long does each meta last, and what have we actually done to respond to it?
When should we step in with major balance shifts, and when should we gradually bring outliers back in line?
If Hunters are exactly where we want them to be, were these outliers intentional—and if so, where are the equivalent options for Warlocks and Titans?
And most importantly, what can we do moving forward? Should we build in more flexibility or keep pushing toward stronger, clear-cut meta choices?
None of this is meant to be rhetorical. The PvP Strike Team really needs to consider how subclass balance and exotic buffs shape the meta over time—because if players can see broken builds coming from a mile away, why can’t the devs?
I just want a healthier, more diverse sandbox. That’s it.
-
[quote]Before all the hunters come for me with pitchforks—yes, I’m a Warlock main. And yes, I’m frustrated. I’m tired of being the only non-Hunter in Trials, Comp, and now even Quickplay. This isn’t aimed at players who genuinely play to win and use what’s effective. This is directed more at Bungie and the PvP Strike Team. I’ve got some feedback to share. This isn’t a hate post, and I’m not here asking for nerfs—just asking some real questions that I hope are taken seriously: Why are Hunters consistently the majority in Trials—often making up around 50% of the player base? Why are there more Void Hunters alone than all Warlocks or Titans in Trials? And it's even more skewed in Comp. We just came out of a Prismatic Hunter-heavy meta, and now we’ve landed straight into an invis-smoke-heavy Void Hunter meta. Why? Why is high-end PvP (Trials and Comp) always dominated by Hunters? What is it about the Hunter subclasses that makes them consistently rise to the top? How can a subclass with only -blam!-% pick rate end up representing over 30% of PvP usage? Once the PvP Strike Team can take a real look at those questions and identify what’s driving these trends, the next step becomes even more important: Dig into the core issues: Why does each new subclass we create still lead to another Hunter-dominated meta? (Looking at you, Prismatic.) How long does each meta last, and what have we actually done to respond to it? When should we step in with major balance shifts, and when should we gradually bring outliers back in line? If Hunters are exactly where we want them to be, were these outliers intentional—and if so, where are the equivalent options for Warlocks and Titans? And most importantly, what can we do moving forward? Should we build in more flexibility or keep pushing toward stronger, clear-cut meta choices? None of this is meant to be rhetorical. The PvP Strike Team really needs to consider how subclass balance and exotic buffs shape the meta over time—because if players can see broken builds coming from a mile away, why can’t the devs? I just want a healthier, more diverse sandbox. That’s it.[/quote] Invisible hunters are annoying to fight, but RDM needs to be adjusted or something. Every hunter and the family is using them. It's RDM, Last Word, DMT, Redriks Estoc, Fusion, invisible and spec blades, but mostly just invisible, last word, Redriks Estoc, and RDM. It does feel strange that Bungie releases Marathon in Alpha with pvp in a horrible state. I guess trying to steal pvp players and move them to their new gold mine.
-
1 ReplyThe answer to those questions is that everybody at bungie is a hunter main 🤷♂️
-
This guy can’t fathom that the majority of the playerbase is hunters by a mile. There’s a reason Bungie rigs guardian games every year with a new mechanic to determine score due to the hunter population lol. Final shape also had diamond lance chaining titans running around infinitely freezing people. We’ve had plenty of metas where the other classes abused broken abilities. Abilities have been slowed down and nerfed so much that people insist on playing ranged fights consistently. People choosing to crutch invisibility just shows how the other options are just not as good anymore lol.
-
Edited by Oogyman: 4/23/2025 3:18:51 PMI think they see it, but its Bungie. They don't give a sh*t. They've spent years doubling down on every bad decision, which are the majority of their decisions, by far. They never create with the players in mind. If they did, they'd have a good balance throughout, with minor, but acceptable deviations between classes, subclasses, abilities, and exotics. I love playing as my Hunter, but I prefer Warlock. I have one of each class that I bounce between. Warlocks and Titans are pretty good in the PvE scene, but PvP? Their abilities are largely useless, while Hunters just run amok with every overpowered option available. Three minute super charges. Infinite invisibility. Wandering supers that recharge while active, giving things like Golden Gun, 8-10 shots. Its stupid. The invis is easy enough to spot, but man, Warlocks and Titans could never hope for this kind of stuff. If they get all this stuff, then I want the currently, largely useless Warlock Rift to provide so much healing, it is actually hard to kill a Warlock standing in it, in the open, without an exotic like Stag, and Titan Barriers that can take a damn good beating from supers, bare minimum.
-
Edited by iidaptive: 4/22/2025 3:27:37 PMI was gonna read it all cus I know you are a good Player .. but you’re just citing hunters being a popular choice that doesn’t mean they are the most effective. Hunters have become a gimmick machine with the invis it’s true. Then they add to the fire with artifact perks and needless RDM buff. I hate that and Bungie clearly doesn’t play this game to know the frustrations. But all classes have gimmicky playstyles like a pris Titan double meleeing you and chaining the spear or a lock floating or making you volatile by just a blink jump. Can go on and on. I don’t get ppl complaining about smoke still it has been neutered you just take a step out of it.. just like a grenade aoe, it’s called smoke grenade ppl
-
5 RepliesWarlocks need Icarus dash on every class and the second dash back on solar. Warlocks need blink and phoenix dive on every class. Warlock rift needs to cause damage to enemies inside it, like titan barricade making you 1-shot just by barely touching it. Warlocks need immunity frames when dropping rift or severely reduced animation time. Rift is the easiest class ability to outplay. Titans get instant immunity and potentially overshield when using their class ability and hunters can spam theirs for insane benefits. Rift can be good but against good players(unless you have teammates covering your angles) it’s very easy to fry someone out of a rift or press them during the animation even when the warlock is around a corner or behind cover. Hunter invis needs to be slightly more visible than it is now. Titans barricade needs less health or longer cooldown.
-
You and I should go bowling one day. I am a Titan main and can't get better match making players. Furthermore, Bungie strike team needs to have a rule called stalemate. If a player or two leaves a match then it's forfeit. No stats are taken in consideration. Because tonight our team was doing well until one of them left. Could we have one? Yes, possible if there was a third.
-
Edited by Tru: 4/22/2025 2:07:07 PMAll this was is a hunter bashing post. OP doesn’t realize he is just another mindless bot running around the map. He doesn’t take into account total player populations per character and how they have alway been the same reflection no matter what meta or subclass was overpowered at any given time. Answer is, you focus on your gameplay and not others, you’ll find the solution to your problem. Titans and warlocks far outclass hunters in many aspects including movement, which is ironic.
-
PVP strike team? Is that still a thing? I thought they all went to Marathon or something
-
If they don't fix this issue MARATHON will be an equal hell if everyone picks VOID. I don't know who calls the shots at PvP but the lack care to Destiny PVP can signify the fall of MARATHON before it's released. They need to show is they care about their product before they show us the next one. This builds trust, something a lot of people don't have in Bungie anymore.
-
Fact of the matter is, Bungie seems to believe that if they displease a specific group of PvP players that the entire suite of modes will just die. It's the only theory that explains so many strange balance decisions or apathy toward obvious mis-matches in PvP. I see it as a self fulfilling prophecy where the population is what it is [i]because[/i] they wish to please these players, but I'm sure they're doing there best otherwise. Sometimes they incur the wrath of these guys with the whole air accuracy thing, but much more often we've seen Warlocks and Titans get nerfed almost the very next season. Hunter mechanics, just in general, excel at PvP neutral. Strip all the classes of Aspects and Fragments and give the same weapons to everybody - Hunters will do better. That's why they're played more in PvP, simple as. And Bungie is fine with it because they don't want to deal with certain parts of the population using their platforms and big threads to sour the game.
-
17 RepliesEdited by Chunk: 4/21/2025 7:50:54 PMHunter is the most used ok Warlock has the highest win % in high end pvp followed by Titan and in last place win % wise it's Hunter Most used doesn't mean best it just means easiest to pick up and play with and usually those people suck at PVP Everybody wants invise Hunter Nerfed but RDM are the problem not invise Hunter, nobody cared about invise Hunter last season... Just wait until everybody realizes solar Hunter with RDM radiant and on the Mark is better than invise
-
Hunters should be disincentivized from using invis openly, i've suggested that they should take bonus damage while invisible and shortly after you break their invis. This will add some counterplay to invis hunters and force them off the field and away from direct engagements. I say make it so guardians take 35% additional damage while invisible, and if invisibility is broken (by taking damage, not by cancelling it) they become weakened for 6 seconds (in PVP, weaken is 7.5%). The first shot will deal 35% additional damage and break invisibility, the second and beyond deals 7.5% extra damage because of weaken. [spoiler]They could also become suppressed, thoughts?[/spoiler] Weapon damage breakpoints: It will still take 3 shots to kill an invisible guardian with a 140 RPM handcannon, 2h 1b. It will take 2 headshots to kill an invisible guardian with a 120 RPM handcannon, 2h. It will take 7-8 shots to kill an invisible guardian with Redrix's Estoc (3 pulses). Either 6h 1b or 4h 4b. Weapon damage calculations: [spoiler]140 Handcannon 2h1b: 79.85 * 1.35 + 1.075 * ( 79.85 + 44.5 ) = 241.47375 120 Handcannon 2h: 90.85 * 1.35 + 1.075 * ( 49.03 + 49.03 ) = 228.062 Redrix's 6h1b: 31.81 * 1.35 + 1.075 * ( 5 * 31.81 + 1 * 20.41 ) = 235.863 Redrix's 4h4b: 20.41 * 1.35 + 1.075 * (4 * 31.81 + 3 * 20.41) = 230.15875[/spoiler]
-
1 ReplyHunters have the highest rate of velocity in any direction. Movement is the BIGGEST advantage you can have in any PVP. This is why Hunters cry when I mention giving Warlocks double jump. They gave up NOTHING in D2 to cement their superiority in raw velocity. But we have to pretend warlocks can’t make footholds from light after ripping holes in spacetime.
-
We came out of a prismatic titan meta into a void hunter meta not prismatic hunter to void hunter What are you on
-
8 Repliesand yet Warlock STILL has the best movement in the game.
-
3 RepliesEdited by FrenetiCreature: 4/21/2025 10:55:10 PMThis may not be the reasons for everybody, but these are my reasons - [quote]Why are Hunters consistently the majority in Trials—often making up around 50% of the player base?[/quote] The jump. For me anyway, it's mostly the jump. Plain and simple, that's why I use Hunter over the other two. That and the fact I can do almost an insta-reload with my dodge. [quote]Why are there more Void Hunters alone than all Warlocks or Titans in Trials? And it's even more skewed in Comp.[/quote] The neutral game. Even though you can't do it anymore, it was the Wombo-combo that got me to choose void from the beginning. Void is what I got used to, and have just always used ever since (Way before all the complaining about it). [quote]We just came out of a Prismatic Hunter-heavy meta, and now we’ve landed straight into an invis-smoke-heavy Void Hunter meta. Why?[/quote] We finally got that new aspect that's actually useful in PvP. The other ability we had wasn't very good in PvP. (Stylish Executioner) The new one is basically the same as Trapper's Ambush, except you have to use your dodge charge + get a kill and then run over to the smoke cloud. Trapper's ambush just used your melee ability. The trade off, is you get to keep your melee charge, but have to use your dodge + get a kill. [quote]Why is high-end PvP (Trials and Comp) always dominated by Hunters?[/quote] Again, imo, I really think it's the jump. Tracking a bouncy hunter with your reticle is harder to do than tracking a floofing warlock. Also, the insta-reload with dodge. [quote]What is it about the Hunter subclasses that makes them consistently rise to the top?[/quote] 'See above' [quote]How can a subclass with only -blam!-% pick rate end up representing over 30% of PvP usage?[/quote] 'See above'
-
Hunters have been the most played class since the beginning of Destiny, by a fairly wide margin. Regardless of effectiveness, they're always the most played. Strikers Titans running wild? More hunters. Dawnblade OP era? More hunters. You can (try to) balance classes, but you'll never get a 33/33/33 split on classes played. This should never be a goal. Hunters are always going to be the most played. It hasn't always been the most effective, and when it's not, it will still be the most played.
-
You aren’t dude. I’m a warplock main. Artifact is great for blink lock PvP bomb and warp this season. Also, the mods are fixed and certain weapons perform much better—check game history. 15-5 yesterday, and 9-1 on Friday PvP is great and I don’t find redrix or invis oppressive at all with me exalted T or crimil Crying when high ground literally broke the game and the gameplay was dumb triple lanes
-
Edited by Stari: 4/22/2025 7:32:48 AMBecause some developer's or manager's kid is a Hunter.
-
I think even when 'balanced' hunter will always be top pick for the simple reason you can peak, realise you're losing the fight and then dodge back behind cover. You can't turn fast enough and slide in like you can on MnK so it's a top pick for controller.
-
Hunter needs a Nerf it's too much of a problem biggest broken -blam!- character in the game
-
Same here warlock main 👍 got to the easy version of lighthouse
-
They turn blind eye and pretend to be Clueless just to bring some pvp players in th pathetic attempt they always do.
-
1 Reply[quote]Before all the hunters come for me with pitchforks—yes, I’m a Warlock main.[/quote] We have torches too. [quote] Why are Hunters consistently the majority in Trials—often making up around 50% of the player base? [/quote] More people main Hunters than other classes. [quote]Why are there more Void Hunters alone than all Warlocks or Titans in Trials? And it's even more skewed in Comp. [/quote] The vast majority of people play Hunter which received a new void aspect that pairs well with a recent exotic rework. This combination is potent and something should be done about how it interacts with specific weapons. The exotic, aspect, and certain hip fire weapons are too spicy. This came on the heels of nerfs to Prismatic and Strand. Stasis is only used in Mayhem. [quote]We just came out of a Prismatic Hunter-heavy meta, and now we’ve landed straight into an invis-smoke-heavy Void Hunter meta. Why?[/quote] Because we collectively decided we didn't want to be in a Knockout Diamond Lance Meta. That we shouldn't be in a free Arc Titan meta like the one before that. In the Prismatic Hunter meta with the boring wombo combos, Solar and Void Warlocks had similar winrates to Prismatic Hunter in Trials. Even if they had significantly less usage. [quote]Why is high-end PvP (Trials and Comp) always dominated by Hunters?[/quote] Dominated in terms of numbers? More people chose Hunter. Perhaps you should ask Hunters why they chose Hunter or why they play on Void? [quote]What is it about the Hunter subclasses that makes them consistently rise to the top?[/quote] In usage? We have nice cloaks. There are Warlocks and Titans that perform just as well at the top. Most Titan and Warlocks can't seem to make and play into a functioning build unless it's explicitly laid out for them by a YouTuber cause they refuse to read. Even fewer still learn their class well enough to see its potential. While Hunter Jump allows for an easier barrier to entry, likely having been exposed to a double jump elsewhere... Warlocks and Titans are quite strong. Just niche play styles. [quote]How can a subclass with only -blam!-% pick rate end up representing over 30% of PvP usage?[/quote] The combination of RDM rework with Invis allows for too much invis uptime. This was not possible before. The new stat boosts on the exotic eliminate the weakness of some guns and enhance the strength of weapons that benefit from hipfire. [quote]Why does each new subclass we create still lead to another Hunter-dominated meta? (Looking at you, Prismatic.) [/quote] They actively made Titan class too strong on multiple fronts when their largest demographic is Hunter. This hardly moved the percentages towards Titan from Hunter, but it did reduce Warlock numbers and pissed off a bunch of Hunters. Then they rolled back or changed some of these buffs. You are conveniently leaving that out of your timeline. [quote]How long does each meta last, and what have we actually done to respond to it? [/quote] Some longer than others. [quote]When should we step in with major balance shifts, and when should we gradually bring outliers back in line?[/quote] When design choices force a specific play style with such an otherwise large list of options. [quote]If Hunters are exactly where we want them to be, were these outliers intentional—and if so, where are the equivalent options for Warlocks and Titans?[/quote] Hunters who are running Void with the new Aspect coupled with something like Redrix or Last Word are quite strong. I suspect if we received 3 different aspects and multiple exotics at once, we'd see greater build diversity. We didn't. We got a new void aspect that benefits for the EDM rework. The class itself is fine. This combination of things creates an outlier set of builds that should be looked into to see how their interactions may be adjusted. Solar and Void Warlock are very powerful. Stasis would be use more of everyone wasn't sitting back with pulses, scouts, and 120s. Stasis, Prismatic, and Arc Titan are all strong too. [quote]And most importantly, what can we do moving forward? Should we build in more flexibility or keep pushing toward stronger, clear-cut meta choices?[/quote] We should be careful about making requests that swing the pendulum too far. Describe things in actionable steps. Recognize that the way the game is structured, sbmm may prevent much of the community from seeing what any one particular class is actually capable of. [quote]None of this is meant to be rhetorical. The PvP Strike Team really needs to consider how subclass balance and exotic buffs shape the meta over time—because if players can see broken builds coming from a mile away, why can’t the devs? I just want a healthier, more diverse sandbox. That’s it.[/quote] I concur. I too would like a healthier more diverse sandbox. Once Redrix is nerfed and LW usage subsides we should have it. We should see greater build diversity with the addition of new aspects, melees, and exotics. Rather than knee jerk nerfs or buffs to try and shift the mob that will run to what ever the next new meta is.
-
elitegNo comments on PVP - Bungie cowardly. - 4/24/2025 11:34:49 PM
👆👆 this Bungie respond... I wish not to uninstall/delete but the OP and the several posts you have on the topic need to be responded to.. not just with a band-aid.. reset and fix PVP
