I thoroughly enjoyed how the Echo was characterized. As seen throughout the previous two episodes, the Echos were barely treated as characters. We got hints at a character and will within the Echo of (Riis?), but it was so muted outside of the Whirlwind Dirge cutscene that it genuinely felt more like a tool, just like the Echo of Command. In this Episode though, we get the Echo of Navigation which is a character first, and a very WILLFUL character at that. It’s why the echo is never under the control of another entity, but instead being the Echo that commands others (Funny how the Echo of Command is controlled by another). That’s what the Episodes should have focused on. The Echos as characters because not only would we get new/returning characters, but we would also see new relationships forge. This paired with the changes that should have come with each episode, including the Return of the Dreadnaught and Tangled Shore as active locations albeit altered, and the alteration of Nessus to match the new aesthetic, would have made each of the Episodes, even the ones with rather abysmal stories, Good in my eyes. Heresy shows what Bungie can do with even old Character’s, and it disappoints me that we seem to constantly follow this cycle of having a years worth of bad content, only to be capped off with some stellar content. I also like how this sort of acts as the Epilogue to the Light and Dark Saga too. As you mention, this marks the end of the long reaching effects of the Taken War upon initiation within the Taken King Expansion. Oryx was one of the first major threats we faced that had directly come from outside of the System in the time that the Guardian was resurrected. He was the first threat to the whole of Humanity who hadn’t been beaten back into a standstill unlike the Fallen and Crotas Brood, and was the first markings of War. The fact that Oryx, even up until now, retains his ranking as one of the most powerful Raid Bosses is a show of what he represented. Oryx, our first run in with a Disciple sized threat, the first vestige of what the Light and Dark Saga would entail, and the first show of our strength as a Guardian beyond the destruction of the Black Heart of the murder of Crota.

[quote]Back in the Taken King, Oryx shows up and causes havoc across the system,[u] we fight and defeat him in the campaign, and then we kill him for good in "The King's Fall" raid, with most of his character being given to us through the Books of Sorrow and other lore tabs.[/u] On the other hand, Destiny 2 showed that [b]Oryx's actions in his expansion had a long-lasting impact. His killing and "Taking" of Mara led to Uldren's descent into madness; his Taking of Riven is revealed to have prompted the Nine to kill the other remaining Ahamkara, and Taranis to use a Wish to hide away his and Riven's eggs, ending his own life in the process.[/b] While he didn't have much screen time the narrative made up for it by showing how far into the future his actions affected characters and the story, as well as how much the aftermath of his death affected the Hive.[/quote] What bothers me about this season... Is that oryx, an already established character with massive knock-on effects that have been felt for years (due to mostly good writing) ....At the end of it all. It feels like nothing really happened or went anywhere. Very little impact on the whole picture. like the echo just came & went. Xivu Arath has no conclusion this episode. She didn't even appear in the final fight (all we saw of her was a quick hello in act 3 week 1) Xivu Arath so devoted to her brother.... (enough to send her Voice to challenge the guardian at the end...despite the differences in ideology)....She should have thrown herself to the sword as she is the God of War and died for it as that would have been in character. [b]- Another tragic sibling, claimed by the shortcomings of their faith, dying for a specter barely mimicking the brother that she once loved.[/b] [u]But now Xivu Arath STILL sits around in the background continuing to be a loose thread.....As she was from the start of the Episode.[/u] (Her worm not starving, not having serious consequences as she bumps about in the most childish & abrasive way possible, makes her look weak. Not strong... Which should be the point, but there's no payoff to that!!) This episode should've been a ticking time bomb for her. She has been losing & failing ever since we banished her from her throne world....Her death is guaranteed at this point, the worm's hunger should be a legitimate threat by now & this would've been the perfect (tragic) way to kill her off. -She lies to herself, jumps from one false pariah (the witness) to another (falsely idolizing The Echo as one), she's in a corner of her own insecurities, continuing to double down on her failing sword logic. This loss of Xivu would affect Savathun deeper too... Savathun unable to save her siblings, something she vowed to do. Her new life & new logic unable to change the minds of her siblings stuck in the old ways. Savathun surely has to know that she cannot love a memory. The Echo is just a facade of how Oryx used to be in his Prime. There was no love from The Echo, just contempt. -so while she is justified for losing her Brother (resurfacing of old wounds and what not) [b]-What should've been the BIG DEAL was losing her brother AND her sister.[/b] it would've justified her crash-out even more. Because not only did we destroy The Echo, we actually killed off a real sibling .....again.......oops. The Echo barely did anything. The Deep has moved on without Oryx (as expected) [b]-other players in the universe (The Nine & other entities) are seeking paracausal power...It is guaranteed that eventually something/someone would claim that power for themselves successfully.[/b] So other than Eversion Anchors what was the threat of The Echo really? When there is a bigger bad off-screen overshadowing the whole plotline the entire time. -(the point here is that the Memory of Oryx here didn't add anything substantial, the universe moving on was inevitable...and while seeing oryx react to it is amazing. That's all he did...react....He gave up immediately when he learned that he died. All threats were off the table after Act 1 week 3.) To close this comment off.... Oryx had impacts that has carried on throughout this entire franchise. The memory of Oryx (the echo) didn't have that same effect. If anything The Witness is now the one with overarching Knock-on effects (rightfully so) -The Subjugator was probably the coolest side-plot of the episode that was never explored in-game. The lore around this character was awesome....(The Witness performing heretical acts of its own...) & it went nowhere. Overall there were good moments... but it has been deeply undercut by what could have been a better story. "The bar" from the start of the episode has barely moved at all & that's not what you want out of a story. In the end it fell flat. And felt more like nolstagia baiting instead of using that nostalgia as a narrative tool. It really does feel like Bungie holding out on us for "more content" later in the future. At the expense of good storytelling.

I just want to thank you for making this post because there was zero chance I was actually going to play this season's story. That being said... This story just sounds terrible, like they pulled an "Endgame" and have us fight a younger version of the big bad with none of the investment because it's simply a different character. Except this version of Oryx decided it wanted to die so that's just lame.

Tbh was enjoying the story till they just killed the Echo out of nowhere. Felt like they just wanted this as an excuse to set up Savathun as a big bad villain for a future dlc and to hint at a new threat who'll....just use taken.

I have several thoughts, on a smaller scale than a full breakdown of course. Savathûn actually being honest and so obviously emotional about Xivu and Oryx, desperately trying to get through to both of them was a really cool dynamic from her. Ties even further into that two sides of one coin thing they set up with her and Mara. We knew from how she so aggressively held the Temple of the Navigator outside of her territory she had a great love for Oryx and was so distraught about the Echo’s rejection of her and her anger at its destruction. It’s just refreshing to see that side of her. Especially when we see she’s preserved Malok’s head and is furious when we attempt to take it. Sad we didn’t get more from Xivu, developmental wise. She showed up, still broken up about Oryx and did next to nothing as per usual. Would’ve been nice to see her more aggressive outside of just the new area in the Nether and some vague undefined ritual that got disrupted by the Dire Taken anyways without our involvement. Like a week 2 ‘Xivu is absolutely flooding the Dreadnaught’ type deal where she has her own attempt to steal the Echo back. The Echo switch up felt too quick from the disruption of Savathûn’s efforts to the melancholic attitude it takes up during the finale switch up, but it feels perfectly in character despite that. Wanting to go down swinging but accepting the inevitability of his death as he’s not truly Oryx was a tragic note to end on. Especially since his Shade doesn’t even fight us past the first encounter. But I do find it odd how it stated Oryx was commanding the Resonant Knife, as well as several mentions of the actual Oryx’s will still reverberating within the Taken like, ironically, echoes. I’m surprised we didn’t see more about the Lord of Nothing, but perhaps that will be the subject of the epilogue as we lead into Frontiers.