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3/13/2025 3:44:57 PM
22
The focus of Trace Rifles in Act II Really Highlights an Issue with This Weapon Archetype
Why are all the Trace Rifles in the game Adaptive Frames?
In general Trace Rifles have been struggling in the game for quite a bit (mostly the Legendary ones, exotic Traces all and all are in a pretty good spot) because they don't really have a good place for what they offer. Legend Trace Rifles are effectively a special ammo ad-clear auto rifle, however that role is in direct competition with Auto Rifles (which use Primary ammo) and other Special weapons (like Rocket Sidearms). It's clear that Bungie is definitely looking to make Traces more competitive, with the Act II seasonal mods and the new perk Detonator Beam, however it doesn't seem like they've taken the more obvious approach of adding additional frames to Traces. Lodestar is a pretty good example of how giving new things to Trace Rifles can revitalize people's interest in this weapon. I absolutely love Auto Rifles, but if the only frame of Auto rifle that existed was Adaptive Frame or Precision Frame, Auto Rifles would feel like a fairly boring and repeditive weapon. Trace Rifles are in the exact same place, and this issue is only compounded further when they release multiple Trace Rifles close together that are more or less the same as the original Traces we got. For example, there's no difference between how you would play Warlord's Spear and Keraunios compared to Path of Least Resistance. The only difference is that the former are newer and thus have more up to date perks like Detonator Beam, Jolting Feedback, and Rolling Thunder. Even among Warlord's Spear and Keraunios though, their perk pools are both up to date so they just feel like a the same weapon.
The only argument against this I can think of is the question of what those other frames could be when all Trace Rifles do is just fire a beam, but at the same time I think overall that question has kinda been killed with the introduction of Support Frame Auto Rifles, Area Denial Grenade Launchers, and Wave Frame Swords. There's definitely creative ways to add variety to this weapon archetype (again, look at Lodestar)
Tl;dr
For more people to be interested in Trace Rifles, there need to be more frames for the weapon
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4 RepliesI think they mostly need around a 15% damage boost and an extra 100-150 reserves. That would push their dps about 10% more than exotic primaries and help to alleviate the ammo problem. The other option is to just bite the bullet, cut their damage by 15-20% and make them all primary weapons again. I’d lean away from making them one-off mini-exotic weapon types and more towards making them a core weapon type with functional subclasses like (Aggressive - more damage less range and stability. Lightweight - faster handling but reduced mag size)
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9 RepliesJust make them have slightly less damage than a heavy machine gun and we good…
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Never really liked Trace rifles, except maybe Prometheus. Was a time in PvP 😂 They've always felt underwhelming to me.
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I don’t understand what you’re saying. Traces are extremely good this season regardless of archetype. And the new/perks new traces enhance that. They do special weapon damage with perk that enhance already OP builds. Only reason not to run them if did Le mon/choir and that’s because choir is the best gun in the game with this artifact
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Agree on new frames. Could have a rapid fire frame that's akin to Lodestar's ADS mode, but faster pulses. An agressive frame that works like Prometheus or Coldheart, longer it is on a target, the more it does. High impact is Lodestar with slower, higher damaging pulses.
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Honestly, I think both trace rifles and swords, might as well have infinite ammo. I mean, sweet business is basically a kinetic TR with infinite ammo and it's not OP. Even in pvp, TRs sit on the upper end of primary TTKs, but require nearly all crits. Probably the only TR that would need to use ammo would be the exotic heavy one. As for swords, we saw during sword week, that even then people were reluctant to use them. In pvp they would be fine, except for maybe caster frames and black talon, but they could easily make it were you need to collect heavy ammo to use the heavy attack in pvp.
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1 ReplyTbh If they want them to be worth using for add clear. They need more add clear perks (they should make targets explodes rather than having perks only about dealing sustained dmg as if they were dps weapons) And the ability to shoot through ennemies also. Would change a lot of things if they decide of what to do with them.. Even with the artifact mod giving legendary trace riffles a 50% dmg boost...its not worth using them over any special :/
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They just need more damage, the only Trace that is actually great is Agers Scepter and that's because it clears entire armies of ads, path of least resistance on a lower scale is also good, but the rest are terrible.
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2 RepliesEdited by Auronio: 3/13/2025 8:29:50 PMYou pointed out my own concerns when playing constantly this season just for Banshee's Bounties. But never in reasonable activities where I always gravitate to autos. The main disadvantage of traces Imho isn't their ammo or damage but its range profile. They are best case usable short to low mid range. They are suffering from a deep damage falloff and an abysmal precision deterioration going at range. That's why I have given up using Traces cause there's nothing an auto or even a SMG can't do as good or better. The only viable Trace is Aegers Scepter. It's outstanding, the rest is more or less useless and a nice short term buff by seasonal modifiers won't cure this rest's intrinsic weaknesses.
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1 ReplyI think another issue is making new frames that effectively just copy exotics. What if they made a trace rifle that bounced an additional beam to a target closet to what you're shooting at? That'd basically just copy Prometheus Lens to an extent. We could argue Microcosm is it's own frame. It may be a heavy weapon and is probably balanced, but it feels like it has a lot less stability and aim assist than the stats would suggest compared to a special trace rifle. And it certainly wouldn't be the first time they've made a weapon with the same impact as others (special/ heavy variants included in here) but do different damage. Look at Long Arm, Hawkmoon, Last Word, DMT, Lord of Wolves, le Monarque, Choir of One, Cerberus, Graviton, Crimson, and more I'm probably forgetting. The next option for a frame would just be one that comes with a trace rifle version of Armor Piercing Rounds. Then there's an option for a frame that overheats after firing too long, stopping you from shooting.
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I always felt that Legendary Trace Rifles should have never been a thing. Adding more weapons to the game can make it interesting but this was unnecessary. Too many weapons means balancing issues and, like you said, they don't really have a role to play. I don't see how adding more frames would solve the issue. It would compound the problem. Adaptive frames, where do they stand? What about, say Aggressive frames or Precision or Lightweight? It still doesn't solve the question of What Are They For.
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4 RepliesThrowing this idea out there. Aggressive frame - The longer damage to a target is maintained. The Higher the Damage output of the weapon. Resets on reload.
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Chronophage with Destabilizing rounds and Repulsor Brace. Path of Least Resistance with Voltshot. Retraced Path with Incandescent. The other perks for PoLR and RP can be whatever. I chose Adaptive Munitions. All 3 feel like exotics. I even run double trace rifles in one of my loadouts. Ager's Scepter is amazing with Chronophage on Prismatic.
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What about a charge frame, longer you hold down the button, the more damage it deals up to a certain point, about midway through charging you get piercing, and at full charge it becomes a railgun, that can land headshots.
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Make aggressive-frame so that it increases damage-per-second per-hit stacking per-second with no stack limit if beam remains on target and as long as it has ammo.
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I just want them to stop with the Halo Focus Rifles
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I mean in theory at least you can always do 3 archetypes. Rapid fire, adaptive, and high impact. Going from most ammo efficient add clear to best DPS. So then exploring archetypes could be a good way to make them seem like a decent option outside the two builds I’ve ever made with them. Both were great and used cenotaph but still.
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It'd be nice if there was an aggressive frame where the beam can actually pass through enemies and do reduced damage to enemies behind them.
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Good points. I’ve been using trace rifles much more this season, & I just hate how they preform sometimes. Need more damage, definitely a difference with archetypes added on & an ammo bump.
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elitegFREELANCE or bust - old
I think really great points. tbh > If I was running the game these would not be much more than exotics and maybe a unique ritual /event weapon type. When I think of them in different RPMs.. like shooting at quanta of energy, instead of a continuous stream.. it starts to get funny... like imagine a 900 rpm short range trace.. just pulsing out trace fire? Or wave-frame blast.. or a wide stream.. or a rotating stream.. we're getting into whats best represented by exotics really. I do think if they continue to develop them they can tune them like lodestar (and like an autorifle like you mentioned) as primary fire. Maybe primary fire is the continuous steam.. and special trace becomes impactful like a shotgun but a longer stream than say a fusion.. I'm curious to see what the weapons department will come up with in the future. -
2 RepliesEdited by jhermannITJ: 3/13/2025 4:07:10 PMI think you're on to something here. I would give intrinsic benefits, unique to trace rifles, built into their frames. For example. Adaptive frames would have subsistence built in. Ultility frame - that would 1. Create elemental pickups 2. Reduce or eliminate the cooldown for those alinged assets i.e. Arc = Ionic Traces, etc. Support Frame - that (since it requires ammo) would grant much better healing. Those are my thoughts. To compete with rocket sidearms without nerfing sidearms.
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Edited by JazzyPaladin477: 3/13/2025 5:48:22 PMI think any kinetic weapon should be as kinetic/energy weapons are now, and anything in the energy slot (scout, pulse, autorifle, hand cannon whatever) should be a primary ammo trace rifle/gun. Hell you could even extend that to special and heavy weapons. I mean a trace rifle is just an energy beam. Maybe they should have a slowly recharging battery instead of ammo like energy weapons in halo. Or a battery that is recharged by kinetic weapon kills.
