I mean you could have some ground to say raids take up more resources than they are worth given the numbers and that other content would be better as a result, sure, but to say it caused the overall decline is asinine. Cause an easier mode would see a fair uptick in engagement in full raid. Which takes a lot of wind out of that sail. Disposable and timed content rubbed people wrong, removing overleveling took an important handicap for no thumbs, narrowing the band for viable builds, DLCs with weak stories and content. That’s what drove the decline. Some of that’s been reversed but it is a case of too little too late, FS was the last straw for too many. The quick and disposable mentality towards content along with sterile engagement metric goalposts. Taken King, Forsaken and Shadowkeep didn’t have those attitudes in their making and that’s why those eras were so good. But also we have a part to play. This gotta min max smash as fast as humanly possible cheese ever encounter mentality on players parts limits what they can make, especially for content that’s more grind wheel than complex end game activities. Early Destiny was more like that. The sweaty meta cheese clone army play style mentality they crept in at its on the rise of online popularity is what ruined the game. Efficiency is for robots, not a formula for fun.

I think what killed the idea of raids is simply due to the token system in raids. D1 had the right and best idea. Normal mode had revives which allowed for mistakes and corrections. Hard mode had permadeath but also absolutely heroic moments. The endless reset because “we burned a token” became a too thick and tall a wall to climb.

Add matchmaking, a ping system and vote kick and not letting the fire team lead be able to have all of the power. Any one can raid. Get 5 other like-minded new people who actually WANT to learn and not have loot land on their lap and you'll be fine OR find a sherpa. That's literally what EVERYONE ELSE did. Find people who can play in the time frame you have for yourself.

[quote]those that are left will argue the point, but it is a point that the silent majority have dealt with since the implementation of raids with Vault Of Glass. However, once the seasonal model became the norm, this codified the inherent, baked in exclusivity of this model and bottlenecked the player count which has led to the overall decline of the game numbers in general. No fluff, I have managed clans, The100.io LFG groups and much more over the years. I would consider myself actually a below average player cmpared to most "raiders" but if you count the silent majority, fairly average. But the thing I have noticed with clans and friends is that, in a nutshell, the overall consensus is this. "I grind harder and harder content to tedium just so I can possibly try the raid at the end, rinse and repeat". What that actually means in all practicality is that the raid IS the main focus and if you aren't going to be able, for whatever reason, to realistically obtain the proper levels, gear, friend group, help, investment time and skill, none of which are optional. Then you are left with a short story, some side content aside from all that to justify playtime at all. Which is fine, but here's the real world, rubber meets the road fact check. Only an estimated 11% to 15% of all Destiny players have ever completed at least one raid. Because Destiny is a massive live-service game with millions of registered accounts, the vast majority of its player base is highly casual and never engages with this endgame content. The Breakdown: Total Completions: Across the lifetime of the game, only about \(11\% - 18\%\) of all created accounts earn a raid completion achievement.Active Player Variance: Among players who log in regularly during a current season, that number can bump up to \(20\% - 30\%\) depending on how accessible or popular the specific raid is.The "Hardcore" Minority: While millions of runs are logged, a HUGE chunk of the total raids are completed by a dedicated percentage of the player base running them REPEATEDLY. For example, data from platforms like Raid Report shows that players with seven or more completions are often in the top \(30\%\) of all raiders.Day-One Raids: The most difficult tier of raiding attracts an even smaller fraction. Day-one raid completions often see success rates below \(1\%\) to \(0.003\%\) of participating teams. What does all that mean in summary? The reason why Bungies player base dwindled is due to the fact that they are making the best content and focused effort for a minority of the players in their game. And as a business model it is foolish to not think the player base would inevitably dwindle and dry up. To not point this out as an inherent, franchise killing flaw is the result of of the loudest players and those that monetise the game with content as a minority that 's always demanding MORE. While my extensive real life interactions and experince confirms this without a doubt, the rhetoric always shifts to peoples personal wants and desires. In other words, the few that raid and the fewer that complete them have literally choked out casual players, whether they realize it or not. NOT a blame post. But one that wants a healthy community that can sustain a franchise with understanding and communication amongst ALL it's player base. Suggestions for potential future development. 1). Cut the grind down. People play because they are having fun, want gear and enjoy the comradory. Many have abandoned the game just for tedium alone. If Bungie wants an engaged player base, just give them a good time. 2). Entry level raids- The bar is too high and numbers don't lie. After the initial raid race an easier version, with mechanics simplified and possible exclusion of the final boss or some variant, would be far more realist goal and incentive for far more players and hence broaden the audience that could realistically engage and bring others along to do the same. 3). Outsource a proper LFG that doesn't encourage the worst of posts like micless perfection runs as a main staple. Expanding further on the idea of in game elitism is the overtaking of forums, group finders and the like. Sherpa runs should be encouraged and rewarded by Bungie instead of being left to devolve into a shallow and frustrating time consumer that is quite unfriendly to average and newer players. Down vote this, make rude comments while you pound your tiny chest. I truly don't care and don't respond to that nonsense. I just want the game I enjoy and the people I have had the privelage of experiencing some of the greatest moments in gaming with to not be minimalized and dismissed. Because if you TRULY want a new Destiny game, we have to be aunified community that is WORTH making it for with numbers that make sense. See you starside Guardians.[/quote] This!!

Explorer mode ftw

It might be unpopular opinion, but I think RAID are overrated. There is nothing aspirational about them, in my opinion. Like it takes some kind of exceptional skills to shoot a symbol while standing in a plate, or dunking a ball while having a buff… Raid aren’t aspirational, they are Elitist, but not from a skill perspective, just a time commitment perspective. There’s nothing in Destiny you can’t do if you spend hours every day on it. It’s far from being as challenging as training at the gym, learning an instrument, a 3rd language, etc. It just boils down to having a lot of time on your hands, and the fact that so much money went into it for such a little portion of the population probably explains why the game kept loosing people.

No need for insults. I have a big chest because I work out.