Bungo and destiny 2 where fun goes to die. Seriously though their entire focus is on trying to force engagement metrics for investors. Unfortunately they seem to fail to grasp that they are making the game so un fun in the process that the player base is heading for extinction.

Couldn’t agree more. Your description of the dread section of Alters is dead on. Even staying back and using a scout doesn’t always work, you can still get sucked in, slowed, frozen and oof: dead. 🤬 But hey, at least there’s no wizard stuck on a hill 🙈

Let's not forget this is also like the 5th day in a row Grounded has been active against enemies that can spam slow you with little to no wind up/ time to react and can displace you into the air against enemies that can absolutely shred you (themselves included) or cause so much flinch/ screen shake you can't line up a shot. Or how about modifiers that punish you for doing good like Combat Fatigue, like what kind of backwards logic is that to punish someone for being the "MVP"? Then you die and lose your Hat damage bonus, nerfing you back to fighting enemies that are stronger than they have any right to be while you yourself are nerfed like 4 times over or the enemy buffed just as much. Then we have that cesspit of cheaters, tryhards, and griefers in Red Rumble what with all the spawn killing that's so bad I've personally been spawn killed SEVENTEEN TIMES IN A ROW being the record. 12 because I kept spawning in the same area I kept dying in to be killed by the same guy I just got spawn killed by, several times with movement and accuracy so insane for a console player at those ranges with their guns I have no doubt they were using Xim/ Cronus or MnK which last I heard is cheating in console lobbies. 5 of those 12 I had multiple shooting me before I could even leave the area. 4 of the 17 times I died were to the same super because it spawned me in their path, a super that hunters can't outrun and I had nothing to fight back fast enough with. And the one time it spawned me elsewhere, I spawned in front of a sniper. Any other game with spawns this bad would've already implemented spawn invincibility and started banning people for griefing/ cheating via spawn manipulation. Back to the PvE side of things. I can't think of anyone I know who actually enjoys having their progress invalidated via the forced power deltas no one asked for in every activity now. But we got higher light level drops (worthless because of said deltas) and QOL changes that should've already been in the game like gear dropping closer to our level and each completion/ bonus rewards adding to our progress and chances towards a prime engram. I'm not saying I want to breeze through everything, but I HATE always playing at a disadvantage and not being able to benefit from my time "becoming stronger". If I shouldn't be allowed to fully benefit from my time, Bungie shouldn't have any right to tell me how much time I need to invest to get the gear I want. It's only fair. Whether that's buying a specific roll for a specific tiered weapon with in-game free currency or focusing all my drops to be the gear of my choice. Difficulty is a joke because they neither reward you appropriately nor allow anything resembling a fair fight. The only way they can do difficulty is either bullet sponge enemies which no one likes, especially when this usually is thanks to them making your last 80 levels pointless, an insane number of enemies with no cover to work with which isn't fun or fair, or over complicated mechanics which no one likes. Guaranteed not one of them plays this game unless it's to show us "this is what we're working on". Even then, I doubt any of them can honestly say they enjoy it unless their definition of fun is synonymous with masochism or sadism.

I wish I could disagree. It just feels like Bungie has lost touch with good game design. They seem to have this mindset that challenge = fun, and so anything that screws over the player is enjoyed. Almost as if they see players as masochists. From a player's point of view, it appears that they prefer giving enemies what I like to refer to as "bs tactics." That being basically anything that doesn't have proper counter play or can screw over the player without being clear what the player did wrong. Often times the player didn't actually do anything wrong and just got unlucky. Oh you're having fun slaying enemies? Oops, your bow shot doesn't one shot crit this attendant this time, now you get yanked from behind into a slow field surrounded by adds. Or the classic "let's all randomly target this specific player all at once" strategy I've seen an entire battlefield of enemies use to insta-kill me a few times. When they design things, it appears they don't do it to improve the game. It always seems just to give players another hurdle to jump over for loot, but they also know players will complain if it's too boring, so they make it "hard" to compensate. The game has, for the most part, devolved into a treadmill of tasks and chores to get watered down loot. The only reason I keep playing is to keep up to date, and I do still find little pockets of fun when things feel like they just work in my favor. I've found I enjoy the game drastically more and am much more willing to play more if I feel like what I'm doing is working. It kills my mood when the game just randomly decides to punish me. Not for something I did, but just because it wants to be "hard."

Bungie doesn't want fun. You see that funny sword glitch? yeah that was fun, but Bungie can't allow fun so sadly it didn't stay.

If Eververse and microtransactions up the wazoo don't tell you everything you need to know, then you're adorable just the way you are. Go play now!

Difficulty is good. But nothing should be black and white. A good game needs both more and less challenging content that feel worth it to play. With more challenging being more rewarding of course. But, I shouldn’t have to run ultimate difficulty to even get relevant gear when I play with a lower level friend. Because no matter how you slice it, getting Lower light gear that is a tier lower than I would get just playing solo ops feels bad.

The problem is, fun is subjective Alot of people find Dark Souls and game like it fun, and it's banging your head against the wall for hours untill you memorize every every single enemy attack by heart,because one mistake and your dead, and that's just a trash mob Like some people can enjoy a casual Sunday drive, and some people need to be in a Formula 1 race Video Game developers are cursed with satisfying both

If fun is steamrolling enemies, there are plenty of activities in the game where you can do that. The issue is that people want to steamroll and get the best/ high-level loot at the same time. It doesn't work like that. Also, I've noticed that people will say the game is only fun when there is bug/glitch that lets players cheat the game in some way. Whether it's extra drops, us being able to extra damage/melting bosses, etc. If that's the case for you, it sounds like you should just play another game cause it seems you don't like playing this one, and there's nothing bungie can do to fix that. You either want to play or you don't.

If you’re getting smoked in FOTL then you’re probably getting smoked everywhere. The game was harder out the gate before you got decent armor, guns and builds. If you’re still struggling in your delta, start using LFG to source stronger players. You should also watch some videos on some builds. The right build will help your survivability and make the game “fun” for you. Or I suspect so, anyways.