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Edited by Pazsy:
6/25/2025 11:13:44 PM
22
Gamblers dodge change is a horrible idea (and stat talk)
Nerfs hunters in PvE by making them invest into 2 stats (again) while the other two classes don't have to do so to make their class abilities work. Makes hunters more annoying in PvP because they don't have to be near enemies anymore to get the melee back.
This is a bad idea and I'm getting really really tired of the horrible balancing decisions when it comes to hunters.
They keep giving us PvP tools and act bewildered when hunters are out of band in PvP, so they make us worse in PvP which always ends up hurting PvE. They also never rebalance or rework those tools to be more geared towards PvE so they just remain in a limbo of being mid to even straight up awful.
I also keep seeing the idea of "well you're going to be investing into melee anyways what is the issue?" the issue is when you aren't. What if I want to make a grenade or super build on hunter? Now my melee which is usually used for utility doesn't have nearly enough uptime and my class ability is borderline useless. What happens to things like Young Ahamkara's Spine? You're telling me I have to have a minimum of 70 on class/melee/grenade just to have it work as it does now? I can't even reach 200 grenade because of this change to gamblers dodge??? This problem applies to so many builds and this single change has sucked out ALL and any chance of hype for me.
Hunters do NOT have strong single use ability builds like Titans and Warlocks. They do not have crazy grenade builds that only utilize grenade like starfire, or touch of thunder pulse grenades. They do not have crazy melee builds that don't also rely on your class ability. They don't have anything like sanguine or storms keep with their class ability to build into. The ones they do have like shinobu's or lucky raspberry do not have any damage so they aren't used. GOOD builds on hunter utilize every single piece of their kit and because of these stat changes hunters virtually CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF 200 STATS AS EFFECTIVELY AS TITANS OR WARLOCKS. That is the complaint hunters are making. They aren't mad that they have to actually build craft now, they are mad that their build crafting is being extremely limited with this change.
[b]"OH BUT YOU CAN DODGE ANYWHERE NOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE NEAR ENEMIES"[/b]
You guys say that like it changes literally anything. You're still gonna be dodging near enemies. Ascension exists, Winters shroud exists, Ensnaring slam exists, trappers ambush exists, powerful attraction exists, distribution exists. This changes nothing hunter is still getting majorly screwed over.
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My counterpoint: A hunter with 0 mobility gets their dodge back faster than a warlock with 10 recovery…. Part of dodge’s balancing is that it’s by far the fastest of the class abilities to recharge. So a hunter that picks up 2 armor sets with melee as their secondary stat will get their melee charge back faster than a warlock can get its rift…
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2 RepliesAgreed. It pisses me off that they’re calling it a “rework”. The ability is getting nerfed plain and simple and it’s primarily going to affect PvE more than anything else. Especially if it’s true that there is no Class + Melee stat armour available at launch. I really hope they revert this change at some point.
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Waiting for the hunter haters to spawn in.
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12 RepliesEdited by SirEman80: 6/25/2025 3:38:03 AMThere is so much wrong here… 1) Talking about Hunters not being able to use DODGE to build is just straight up asinine dumb. Trying to talk like that destroys whatever sympathy you are looking for. It is the single most busted centerpiece of buildcrafting in the game. EVERY Hunter builds around the stuff Hunters get from dodge 2) If you are building into GRENADE as a Hunter (outside of niche Stasis options), you are struggling mentally. Talked about it on another thread like this… listed all the options for Hunter grenade builds and that actually deserves a complaint because their are few and they are bad. 3) I’ve asked this question several times and no one gives an answer… WHY [u]should[/u] Hunters get an INTRINSIC perk to refund an ability? Titans and Warlocks don’t and never have… they have to build into it using exotics (Skullfort for example). 4) What COMPARABLE incentive is there for Warlocks or Titans to invest into the Class ability stat? These questions get a little closer to the heart of Bungie’s thought process here IMHO.
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2 RepliesThe changes to gamblers dodge are good. The game will still be fun. If you don’t get full dodge it’s okay you shouldn’t rely on abilities all game anyway. Learn how to play without ability up 24/7. I think hunters are the best players in D2 because they have to manage health and movement in order to be affective. There is nothing wrong with that you play the game for a challenge and to have fun. You can be more creative with this new armor system. Sometimes you have build where you don’t need melee and so you can invest that 70 into something else. Comparison is the thief of joy so at the end of the day the more you compare to other classes the more you’ll be in your feelings.
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Edited by Chunk: 6/26/2025 11:08:28 PMWe watched the vi-doc, the showcase part about the 3 new exotics in the shooting range. The Titan with the Thor hammer never losing it and it always coming back and the charge was always up immediately and never ran out. The Warlock used Phoenix dive and the hellion always had Phoenix dive come back before the hellion ran out. The Hunters Gambler's Dodge and having to spec 70 into melee and spec class ability running to the rally flag 3 different times in order to clear the room because the Hunter had no abilities available and the Warlock and Titan didn't go to the rally flag once
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2 RepliesThis post summs up all my complaints about the Gambler's Dodge nerf so perfectly. It's really nice to see there are still people pushing back against it. Sadly I fear it'll end up getting downvoted to oblivion by all the biased Titan and Warlock mains out there, who think the only way to be a "true" main of a class is to irrationally hate the other two. I wish you the best of luck in getting Bungie's attention though, I've tried a number of times myself. As it stands, if they don't fix Gambler's Dodge soon, I'm not gonna be buying Edge of Fate, or playing the game anymore once it launches.
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At the end of the day the expansion is another bungie favorite more nerfs ,more grind and if you don't run the weapons for that current artifact it's another nerf . might be fun or a slog. but it's got nerf everything all over it.
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12 RepliesAs a Warlock main, I don’t understand. How does your gameplay loop change with this rework?
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8 RepliesAren't the stats pretty much equal across all classes in fate? Maybe i missed it but i thought there was going to be a class ability stat in edge instead of tying it to other stats? I heard hunter was the only class that got an exrta 10 mobility? Just not sure em what's going on
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13 RepliesHave you had hands on the new systems? All the number crunching is subjective and conjecture...and they will fine tune after launch like they always do...all the knee jerk reactions are not helping anyone...
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1 ReplyI agree with Itcus. The exit door is that way. -->
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The exit door is that way 👉
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[quote]Nerfs hunters in PvE by making them invest into 2 stats (again) while the other two classes don't have to do so to make their class abilities work. Makes hunters more annoying in PvP because they don't have to be near enemies anymore to get the melee back. This is a bad idea and I'm getting really really tired of the horrible balancing decisions when it comes to hunters. They keep giving us PvP tools and act bewildered when hunters are out of band in PvP, so they make us worse in PvP which always ends up hurting PvE. They also never rebalance or rework those tools to be more geared towards PvE so they just remain in a limbo of being mid to even straight up awful. I also keep seeing the idea of "well you're going to be investing into melee anyways what is the issue?" the issue is when you aren't. What if I want to make a grenade or super build on hunter? Now my melee which is usually used for utility doesn't have nearly enough uptime and my class ability is borderline useless. What happens to things like Young Ahamkara's Spine? You're telling me I have to have a minimum of 70 on class/melee/grenade just to have it work as it does now? I can't even reach 200 grenade because of this change to gamblers dodge??? This problem applies to so many builds and this single change has sucked out ALL and any chance of hype for me. Hunters do NOT have strong single use ability builds like Titans and Warlocks. They do not have crazy grenade builds that only utilize grenade like starfire, or touch of thunder pulse grenades. They do not have crazy melee builds that don't also rely on your class ability. They don't have anything like sanguine or storms keep with their class ability to build into. The ones they do have like shinobu's or lucky raspberry do not have any damage so they aren't used. GOOD builds on hunter utilize every single piece of their kit and because of these stat changes hunters virtually CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF 200 STATS AS EFFECTIVELY AS TITANS OR WARLOCKS. That is the complaint hunters are making. They aren't mad that they have to actually build craft now, they are mad that their build crafting is being extremely limited with this change. [b]"OH BUT YOU CAN DODGE ANYWHERE NOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE NEAR ENEMIES"[/b] You guys say that like it changes literally anything. You're still gonna be dodging near enemies. Ascension exists, Winters shroud exists, powerful attraction exists, distribution exists. This changes nothing hunter is still getting majorly screwed over.[/quote] There will.be one build.... that dominates all.builds.. the new meta will be the only way to play or be kicked.... thanks for pushing us to the edge of fate...
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1 ReplyThe only buff it needed was this... "Dodging grants melee ability energy, dodging near enemies grants a full melee charge." That is all they had to do imo.
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Honestly, I don't invest in melee at all. In fact, I actively avoid it. SMH, Bungie!
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I'm just worried this whole dodge wherever to get a refund will be so good, they'll end up nerfing it and hunters will be even further upstreem without a paddle.
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Well said 🫡🍻
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Agreed
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#Nightstalker4life
